In the same way that having peace loving parents influenced L to care about awar question, having a mom who worked in the dental field for most of my life taught me to care about this one. This was the first question that I really paid attention to when I joined the site because I was shocked by how many dudes FREELY ADMITTED to brushing their teeth once a day or “only on days when they feel like it”. First and foremost, guys, you… don’t brush your teeth twice a day? Seriously?! Obviously we’ve all had nights when we’ve been super tired/drunk/whatever and didn’t brush before bed. No one’s perfect. Sometimes shit happens:
I’m talking about your standard everyday routine. Brushing twice a day is basic, basic hygiene that all second graders are aware of. And if that didn’t stick with you, I’m nervous to find out what else didn’t make it into adulthood.
Second, even if you only brush your teeth once a day or less (!!!!), you still know that twice a day is the normal, acceptable standard for human beings living in the first world. So why are you voluntarily admitting to having subpar personal hygiene on a dating site? You do know that the goal is for us to eventually kiss, right? Do you think making me imagine these scenarios staring back at me when we get to that moment is helping your cause?
*FYI consider yourselves lucky that I chose these super tame pics because there were some seriously grizzly alternatives available. Google imaging ‘bad teeth’ is officially the most traumatic thing this blog has done sinceL Wiki’d sociopaths last week.
Last but not least, why the sudden candor? L, D, and I have all experienced the lies dudes tell on Okcupid firsthand, most notably in the height andlooks department. Height exaggeration on OKC has literally been documented:
Click here if you want to read up on the other things men (and women) lie about on Okcupid. Spoiler alert: it’s looks and money. My point is, men are obviously cool with lying about all. kinds. of shit. So why not this? Why not just tell me you have exemplary oral hygiene, and I’ll be none the wiser? You literally are 100% kosher with claiming that you’re 4 inches taller than you actually are, but when it comes to brushing habits you’re suddenly Honest Abe? Next time do yourself a favor, sir, and skip the question altogether.
2) The cheap date question:
I promise I’m not attempting to fan the flames of our ‘who should pay’ debate (which PS was our most hotly discussed and contested post to date. We love how fired up you all got!). This question has zero to do with gender. It is, however, a major pet peeve of mine and has been for as long as I can remember. I can’t stand bad tippers. To me, the bare minimum you tip a server in the US “who did a fine job” is 15%. Really unless the service is bad, I always try to leave 20%. If the service is amazing I try to leave more. You’re probably thinking I feel strongly about this because I used to be a waitress, but my Vaudeville routine level of clumsiness has prevented me from venturing into the service industry. Also, watching Rachel Green struggle for so many years was a bit of a deterrent.
However, while I may not have waited tables, I have had my share of low paying thankless jobs *coughjuniorsdepartmentatKohlscoughcough*. And there’s nothing worse than working your ass off and feeling like you have nothing to show for it. Actually, there is: being out to eat with people who basically make it rain at the beginning of the meal ordering drinks and food…
but when faced with the bill are suddenly too broke to tip properly. I’m not going to stand on my soap box any longer, I promise, but this one is important to me. Be kind to your fellow humans who work hard for little pay. Tip your servers! If you don’t, I can’t date you. *End PSA*
3) The wtf are you doing on this site question
You would think that this one would be a no brainer. YOU. WOULD. THINK. After all, you sign up for online dating voluntarily. No one puts a gun to your head and makes you do it. So the question is, if you don’t want to eventually meet in person, what exactly are you doing on here? Just browsing? Window shopping? Fair enough, except I’ve actually been messaged by seemingly normal dudes who I later discover are “not interested in meeting in person”.
First of all, I have zero interest in a creepy online only relationship (unless it ends like You’ve Got Mail did. In which case, sign me up!)
You know what else I have zero interest in? Beingcatfished. I’ve seen that MTV show (PS, if you want to feel really effing old, watch some MTV) and it terrifies me. And what do the people who lie about their identity all have in common? Oh I don’t know, maybe that they’re RELUCTANT TO MEET IN PERSON. So I don’t think I’d be remiss in calling this question a red flag. With all the liars and creepers that lurk on online dating sites, the sooner we can meet and I can confirm that you’re not a 15 year old boy or a 65 year old woman, the better.
Stay tuned for our third and final installment of Makers and Breakers featuring the lovely D!
First dates are inherently awkward, but that magical moment when the check comes can be especially cringe-worthy. There are no rules. There’s no set protocol. Every guy and every situation is different. So before we regale you with our real life tales and experiences, here are our takes on this divisive issue (grab a drink and settle in, because this is a long one):
Should a guy pay on a first date?
S: I consider myself to be a modern, independent woman, but on a first date I think in general the guy should pick up the tab. I know that opinion doesn’t really scream ‘modern’ or ‘independent’, but hear me out. First and foremost, my date (presumably) asked me out, so I’m there on his invitation. And since he invited me, it’s a nice gesture, a show of generosity and courtesy, to pay for that initial round of drinks. If I do the asking in the future, I will 100% offer to throw down (and actually I always offer…I’ll get to this in a sec.)
Second, the vast majority of the time, I literally do all the work on these dates. And if you think it’s not work to keep a steady stream of conversation going with a strange dude, you obviously have not had the pleasure of experiencing online dating. I come up with most of the conversation topics, I ask follow up questions, I act interested when I couldn’t care less about NCAA brackets. Basically I keep the whole thing from being spectacularly boring. I can literally count on one hand the number of guys who contributed equally to the conversation and didn’t make me feel like I was working a part time job while being out with them. On a first date I’m gracious, friendly, funny, engaged, and interested, and I’m lucky to get three out of those fives things in return. So I’m thinking you can go ahead and spring for that Hoegaarden, sir. (Preach, S! Sometimes I literally feel like a working girl, minus the compliments from Richard Gere, given the immense effort I am making to not die of boredom.)
Finally, I am not one of those girls who never reaches for her wallet. After that first time, I expect to take turns paying for things 50/50, because we’re both adults and we’re both equals. You’re not setting some precedent by paying the first time around, you’re just showing that you have good manners.
L: Not necessarily. I think the person who should offer to pay on the first date is the person who asked the other person out. In most cases, it’s the guy, but in some cases, it’s been me. And if I do the asking, I offer. That said, only one guy has ever taken me up on that offer. And then he offered to get the next round.
At the end of the day, I think whole routine of paying for the date is just about courtesy. If you picked the place and the activity, be a host and offer to treat. Please know I was on a horrific date last week (shameless teaser for future post) where we got frozen yogurt. The guy I was with actually told the cashier to ring us up separately. I was furious because 1) he ASKED me and 2) I think NOT offering is really rude. The objective of a date is to build some type of relationship with a person (even if it’s just for an evening), and I think part of that relationship involves taking care of them a little. And, anyone worth their salt, woman or man, will return the favor next time.
D: So I don’t really have a lot to add here. I’ve been attending a document review for DAYS, and literally couldn’t bring myself to look at anything with words by the time I got home each night. I just made myself a sandwich and stared blankly at the tv for a few hours, then went to bed. Lather, rinse, repeat. So by the time I got in on this action, L and S had already said pretty much everything I would have. To sum up: 1) I appreciate it when the guy picks up the tab, but 2) I think whoever initiated the date should, at the very least, offer to pay.
What do you do on a date when the check comes?
S: I’m going to sound like a loon after my above answer, but I always offer to split it. Am I going to judge you if you take me up on my offer? Yes. Is it, in a sick way, a bit of a test? Correct. But it’s mostly just because I cannot physically go out somewhere and not offer to throw cash down, even if I fully expect someone else to pay. The example I give for this is, think back to when a friend’s parents were visiting in college and took you out to dinner. You would offer to contribute when the bill came, but you’d never expect to actually pay. Why? Because you weren’t an asshole. And I’m not either. It’s the polite thing to do. So has anyone actually taken me up on this super polite offer? Stay tuned…
L: Yup-I also offer to split it. To date, no one has ever let me. And, I am not going to lie, even with all the waxing poetic I am doing about being full-on OK with paying for things, I’d be a liar if I didn’t say I appreciate the free drink/meal/movie ticket. (I keep myself on a lean, mean budget, and every penny counts). But honestly, I don’t think I’d be offended if they took me up on it. There are just so many other offensive things men can do on dates, and I have to pick my battles.
D: Just like L and S, I always reach for my wallet. S’s college analogy is perfect. I don’t actually want to pay for myself, but the polite thing to do is offer. As soon as he says “no, I got this”, I say thank you and put the wallet away. I’m certainly not going to put up a fight.
Have you ever split the bill on a first date?
S: Yes. This happened to me for the first time recently. Before that, every dude insisted on paying on the first date and some who I went out with multiple times insisted on paying for everything, always (one guy literally wouldn’t let me buy the popcorn at the movies). In general though, taking turns paying has worked out great.
Anyway, I was on a first date with K and we had just finished dinner. Yes, dinner. When K asked me out, he went right into making dinner plans by asking me if I liked sushi. After some back and forth, I broke my anti-meal rule and agreed. The date was not bad overall; he was smart and nice, but I was (per usual) carrying the conversation. Since he didn’t live in the city I had picked the place… inexpensive and also a BYO (side note… he brought not a bottle of wine but sake. Sake. Ifyou think I didn’t shout “SAKE IT TO ME, BABY” at one point, you would be wrong. I know… how am I still single?)
Anyway, the bill came, K grabbed it, and I did my little ‘would you like to split it?’ song and dance. Except he looked up and said, ‘Sure’. My poker face is non-existent, especially three sakes deep, so I think I must have looked horrified. But what could I do? I offered, and I shouldn’t have offered if I wasn’t prepared for him to take me up on it. So I paid, silently judging K, said goodnight, and promptly called L for a gut check. Was I being completely ridiculous for being annoyed with this guy? I know I offered, buthe was the one who asked me out and then basically insisted that we have dinner. Yes he brought booze (albeit really weird booze) but I was 100% the life of the party, per usual, and then I had to throw down for my rainbow roll. L said that if I liked him I should definitely still see him again , but other friends of mine were all:
The more I thought about it though, the more I realized I’d be a real asshole if I ditched this guy on a technicality. K was an otherwise nice, smart dude who drove into the city at rush hour to meet me. Also, to be fair to him, it’s not like he took the bill and obnoxiously said “You owe 24 bucks”. I actually think he would have just paid if I hadn’t offered (damn it). So I went out with him again. And the next time around, not only was the conversation much better, but he insisted on paying. I don’t know if his mom got wind that he let his date pay and slapped him, or if he just went along with my offer because he wasn’t sure what to do in that admittedly awkward moment. Either way, K actually turned out to be a really thoughtful, generous guy: on our third date he brought me flowers and cooked me an elaborate meal. So yes, in hindsight I feel stupid about having made the sushi incident a “thing”. PS I’m still seeing K… stay tuned. (I’d like to take this opportunity to point out that I was right. You’re welcome, S!) (You’re wise beyond your years, L.)
L: Only with one guy. I bought round one of drinks and he bought round 2. (This is technically different from splitting, but since I still paid first, I’m still counting it.) And on our second date, he let me leave the tip. And this is the one guy I’m still seeing. (Please don’t get too excited by the term “seeing”, readers. It means we’ve gone out since then and I’m spending a lot of time analyzing his frequent text messages.)
But my point is, my interest in this guy has nothing to do with if he’s paid for things or not. I’m interested in him because he’s smart, funny, and has used many opportunities, besides picking up the bill, to demonstrate he’s a nice, courteous person. I’m also just grateful to have a date whose conversation isn’t 1) dull or 2) evidence of a severe social disability. If my date sucks, then I am furious that I invested time in the first place, and would be more furious if I invested money. So gentleman, show me a good time! That’s my bottom line.
D: No. I have, thankfully, been out with gentlemen who always picked up the tab on the first date. Which is something I really appreciate – it’s nice to be treated like a lady on the first date. But unlike my quick “thank you” at the end of the first date, once we hit a second date I’m usually a little more insistent on splitting things, or at least picking up some portion of the tab. I am a grown ass woman with a job after all, I don’t expect every date to be a free meal or movie ticket. Like S said, we’re equals.
And lastly, I can’t help get all Leslie Knope on you guys and talk a little bit about the issue behind this issue, which in my mind, is gender equity and the male/female wage gap. Full time female workers make 77 cents on the dollar that every man makes. (Nerd out more on gender pay gapshereif you don’t believe me). This is a dating blog, so I am going to refrain from writing a white paper about how wrong this is. But I am going to say that I really hope, when I have a daughter, and she starts dating (Yikes!), that the guy expects her to pay on the first date. Because men will making 77 cents to women’s dollars. And we’ll be running the world. It will look something like this:
**I’d like to thank L for that beautiful, intelligent, thoughtful end to our discussion, especially after I posted a 3 minute Youtube clip featuring a character named Alotta Fagina.